It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. Published by on October 31, 2021. He did so to prevent members from apostatizing and becoming fundamentalists. Well also talk about the recent history of BYUs Maxwell Institute and what he sees in its future and in the future of Mormon apologetics overall. This was an awesome interview. In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We were both greenies at the same time. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? Its the same adhominem from his whole establishment that shows how much they think they own the intellectual world. Whatever the reasons, thanks again for your research that revealed there was MTSTWIS (More-To-See-Than-What-I-Saw). I was pronouncing words instead of just reading them. I understand the church spent large sums of money on BYU professors and private research to bolster the Book of Mormon claims through archeological discoveries.unfortunately they have not found what they had hoped for. Unintended consequences here we come! The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. Mark Metcalfe Project Manager - Heavy Lift Division at Western Mechanical Electrical Millwright Services Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada 500+ connections I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. Funny how I was taught at BYU The Glory of God is Intelligence I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. Thank you. The 7th East Press was a gem. Thank you, I didnt know about that info. In another post Ill comment on the Mark Hoffman affair. Best wishes, Brent! My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. He had not let on that the 7th East Press was his brainchild. What has been the ramifications to your excommunication among other family members? Thank you for this very interesting presentation. The name sounds so familiar (I was a Wandsworth baptism as a teenager in 77). Hi, was wondering if Brent is still available to respond to my train of thought above? Get all the information related to Cardinal Health Nps Online - Make website login easier than ever The membership on the website. This was an important, affecting interview. Brent Lee Metcalfe's Assumptions and Methodologies Reviewed by William 1. I have to assume hes simply speaking on the basis of snippets of information here and there without context, because this is clearly untrue. The message was discovered after his review had gone to press and had to be edited out. You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. :). Helping us understand all the ins and outs of this tale throughout the three episodes of this series is Brent Metcalfe, so lets find out more about him, shall we? And theres no way that you can change it. Certainly the reality, was different than the accepted narrative. What are your views on the work of Hugh Nibley? Release Calendar Top 250 Movies Most Popular Movies Browse Movies by Genre Top Box Office Showtimes & Tickets Movie News India Movie Spotlight. Thanks for the great podcast. 515-294-6532. It didnt have anything to do with church history or anything you would read in something like the CES letter, but was instead a realization and acceptance that its not me, its the church followed by a complete collapse of everything. Ive always wondered if my church record was blighted in some way. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. We were not suppose to discuss the Temple, Blacks and Priesthood, and of course definitely not curtain parts of the church history such as polygamy and polyandry. I was with one of his relatives the day he was charged with the bombings, and she was totally shocked & absolutely certain he had nothing to do with it. I., **My question is if Brent could provide a copy of the parallels between Elias Snow and Joseph Smith that Wilford Paulson (former BYU professor)inserted into the book. Growing up in the Eleventh Ward, you seemed very different than the Terry, Larry and Scott group. So sorry for the delay!!!! If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. I think youre referring to what has collectively come to be known as the Michigan Relics. James E Talmage wrote quite a bit about them, back in the day. Vol. Thanks! I was a writer for 7th East Press. Great interview. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. So, so good. Im sure there is a very good possibility that COB personnel would have been more suspect of Jerald, and any information he offered, than Hofmann. Twitter. 2005, page 147, 180, Sillitoe, L., & Roberts, A. D. (1988). Signature Books. [9] Metcalfe and the police were afraid Metcalfe might be a future target he went into hiding. Thanks for the interview both of you. Brent is generally a giant in Mormon Studies, and is a great guy. I devoutly attended BYU in the mid 70s. Regardless of what one takes to be the truth of things, the evidence is not in favor of liberal religiosity as a recipe for church growth- those churches and communities which move away from their traditional truth claims tend to atrophy relatively speedily. Im with you on the music Charles!! During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . A man with boldness of speech, and is often cited by members as one of the favourite apostles to hear from. Or at least, Lets Take this Puppy Down.. Resolved: Release in which this issue/RFE has been resolved. Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. Categories . It was stillbecause it all drove from the incredibility of the whole thing. But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. A special thanks to Brent for giving up so much of his time to do these episodes, especially some of them as he was feeling very much under the weather. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. Menu. Some suggest that energy-conservation constraints favored our thoughts sliding along low-resistance neural ruts that include simple feel-good narratives. Reply. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. Please share your feeling about this observation as well, and how this may affect future missionary work, growth of the church and most importantly the individual peace of mind of its members. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. As Jeremy Runnells (a la Kirby Ferguson) has said, everythings a remix. "[7] William J. Hamblin responded specifically to an article by Metcalfe. Perhaps she remembers me, the useless home teacher. Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. Should have added one more minor thing. What scenario for the books origins have you constructed over your many years of study? $95k AVERAGE INCOME Our wealth data indicates income average is $95k. Thanks for the clarification, Brent. All of these documents are available on the Joseph Smith Papers Project website. All rights reserved. But it has not always been that way or worked in his favor. I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. D&C 76:2021). When we taught the Book of Mormon story, it was part of our presentation. She also noted that after JS none of the preceding Church leaders really got what he was trying to do/teach in this realm. You know, guilt by association. The irony is, I wasnt an activist for anything, I simply wanted to write. I just finished listening to part one and I loved it! I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. Its done. He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. It also struck me that Brent in some ways represents the inverse of Sandra Tanner. You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. It is important that we be critical thinkers and examine the sources providing information, in the same way we would want to know the credentials of someone dispensing medical advice, car repair advice etc. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. brent metcalfe excommunicated. I would include many of the arguments given by the critics as well. Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. My faith failed me and that led to crisis. But I have a question for Brent. [1], In the early 1980s, Metcalfe contributed to the Seventh East Press and Sunstone, while at the same time worked as a security guard at the Church Office Building of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). In Part 6, we talk to Brent about his interactions and run-ins with prominent Mormon apologists like Daniel Peterson, Lou Midgley and others. I think that the group is called FIRM, lead by Rod Meldrum, Jake Hilton, and Wayne May. Boy, what a chilling conclusion. Like I said they were casting that net as wide as they could get it. What has Brent done to mitigate his ADD? I clearly remember the frustration in her voice. We hope to rerecord sometime next week. My examples are numerous and heart breaking. Jn I have some insights into that. They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. Im curious who is singing Lead Kindly Light in this its beautiful. brent metcalfe excommunicated. All this transpired in the 1980s, just around the time Mark Hofmann made his name in the community as a renowned book and document dealer. I was curious about the book that Brent photocopied from the archives. Quote: More recent studies conducted by Professor of Anthropology Richard B. Stamps, of the Michigan Historical Museum, indicate that the artifacts were made with contemporary tools. Afraid that Brent would go public with the contradictory information, the LDS church terminated him as a member. Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! The weaker the church gets the better it gets and when it is completely impotent and ceases to exist it will be the best it can ever be. Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? http://mormonstories.org/brent-metcalfe-hofmann-bombings-excommunication-book-of-mormon/, Scan this QR code to download the app now. [9] According to Metcalfe, he had written a letter to LDS Church leader Gordon B. Hinckley, disputing the grounds for his termination. Today the church has suffered too many blows to its claims of certainty to dare to treat its members the way it treated Brent Metcalfe. I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. So cool that you provided some of the research used by Michael Quinn. John and I are just trying to align our schedules, so expect parts 3 & 4 soon. Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. If the Prophet cant see Hoffman as a fraud, why should anyone assume their Bishop/Stake president has any more ability in terms of divinely inspired discernment? What academic qualifications does Mr. Metcalfe have to authoritatively speak on subjects like the historicity of the Book of Abraham? I found this podcast to be very fascinating. He was going to have him thrown out of the church. Im was left kind of hot but dry after hoping to hear about his drama with the church and its leaders.any chance of allowing closure for me here? Because researchers like me are not taken seriously by them, even if we have serious and significant contributions. Hinckley never responded, but was shortly thereafter offered the job by Christensen, which Metcalfe felt was orchestrated by Hinckley. You are hesitant to answer no evil speaking on what you cant say right ;). This is one of my all-time favorites. :( Will re-record hopefully soon! I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. [4] Metcalfe had become an ardent supporter of the counterfeited Salamander letter, and hired by Christensen to research the letter. Doxey denied asking about Metcalfe. by Brent Metcalfe November 24, 2014 14 Comments Jan Shipps is the perfect inaugural interview for the Mormon Studies podcast. Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. Brent Metcalf of the USA defeats Franklin Maren of Cuba to win Gold in the Men's 65kg Freestyle Final during the Toronto 2015 Pan Am Games at the. I have that info direct from Mac himself. Charles, I dont think I threw the baby out with the bathwater since my examination of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures resulted in the same intellectual concerns that I had with LDS scriptural extensions. Brents work is groundbreaking and reliably fascinating. Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). A member of the LDS Church reports he was excommunicated for apostasy on February 2nd, 2013. Truth or legend? I had a similar reaction to the section about ADD. Im not excited anymore. I just got done reading the book Mormon murders. 0% MARRIED By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Thanks to the both of you! I teared up with Brent during that part. Well also talk in depth with Brent about how he has been able to construct a healthy and happy life outside of Mormonism. I am war weary defending truths that just dont appear true anymore. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. This one is up there with the best. This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. Why are they so adamant about excommunicating someone who has a different opinion than they do? God-belief has also been attributed partly to our brains evolved hyper-tendency to perceiveagency where none exists. Priestly and monastic vocations have dropped through the floor, sexual abuse has skyrocketed (its not just that it was always happening but was exposed recently, it is pretty clear that sex abuse itself has gone way up post Vatican II), church attendance is way down, retention rates among youth have plummeted- one could go on. We had some technical difficulties. This doesn't mean that Metcalfe has accurately translated that theory into his study of things Mormon. She is professor emeritus of history at Read more An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. If you were to write a book, what aspects of the Hofmann story would you focus on? There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. This theory is now well accepted in academia. I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. Robert Ritner, Egyptologist, wrote a recent book the Joseph Smith Papyri in which he acknowledges your encouragement for that project. I havent listened to MS for several years now, but with Brent being interviewed I couldnt miss this, and I wasnt disappointed. My life has been enriched by theinquiries those books catalyzed. The view of the Lamb on mount Sion gave me joy unspeakable and full of glory. All he had to say publicly if there was really no truth in it, was its simply not true and leave it at that. In Part 2, Brent describes working for and with Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter episode, and the bombings that took the lives of Steve and Kathy Sheets. "[10], Naifeh, S., & Smith, G. W. (2005). I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. And if Christianity/Mormonism is *false*, then were being done a tremendous service in this falsification. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? The look of Jesus on me removed the burden of my sins, while he spoke these words, Be faithful until death and this shall be thy place of rest. I never had seen Jesus Christ before, nor heard his voice, nor ever had a sense of his intercession at the right hand of God for me till now (Billy Hibbard, _Memoirs of the Life and Travels of B. Hibbard, Minister of the Gospel_ [New York: J. C. Totten, 1825], 23). This is the part Im most interested in: how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources?. Thanks again for your contribution to Mormon Studies and particularly for your diplomatic engagement with your critics. had the same reaction to the Sandra Tanners interview. (I think that was my only disappointment, that Brent basically gave up on God because of an epiphany.). But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study. A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? His contributions, reflections, thoughts and insights represent some of the most important contributions in the history of not just Mormon Stories, but Mormonism in general. Listening now- so far, I like the new intro lots! Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. That was fascinating, thank you. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! And it leaves this distrust in LDS leaders hanging with the viewer. Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. Do you believe that your martial arts and mental training has contributed to your belief system and the independence from the crowd?

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