Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. Redgard is a similar product. Personally, I like standard drywall. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. When installing KERDI with . I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. Contact us: 888-472-4588 . We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. Gettin' a little delirious. link to What Kind Of Paint For Garage Walls? Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). Sheets of glass mat gypsum are made from water-resistant silicone-treated gypsum, reinforced on both sides by fiberglass mats. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. (3ft-3in wide). I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. The 30-in. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. What I would be most scared off is the fact that no inside or outside corners appear to have been used. It worked well - just like wallpapering. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. Do you have any pictures? With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. On the downside, the cement boards are heavy, somewhat difficult to cut and can leave abrasive sandy crumbs that can damage tubs and shower bases if youre not careful. You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. Fixing that is not that easy though. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried . I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. 173 upvotes. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Ultimately, the decision between a Schlter system or a cement board comes down to the particular application and the goals the user has for the floor system. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. I imagine we could share some good stories. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. . if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . We sponge water onto the cement board. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. You are wise to use a cement board. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. Welcome to the site. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Jun 21, 2017. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. It may take more than 1 beer:). If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. Please feel free to reach out to our Product Support Team at 1-800-992-6273 if you need anything. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. Following the instructions for the product being used and ensuring that all of the necessary steps are followed will help to ensure a successful installation. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? x 48 in. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. FRC board tends to be more moisture-resistant than gypsum board and is best suited for outdoor projects such as showers or tub surrounds. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. It only takes a minute to sign up. I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. It is also widely available and a relatively inexpensive option approximately $10 for a 3-foot by 5-foot sheet. Will use the Schluter Shower system. . Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. For the floor, he should've put a mortar bed, then a membrane that goes over the curb, then another mortar bed. Thanks. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. Caulk the gap. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? I also used the Kerdi drain. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. @JimmyFix-it - You are right. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. What? Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. Following the correct application of Kerdi membrane over cement board will ensure a successful waterproofing installation and lasting results for your tile project. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. Maybe try another brand of thinset? That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Installation. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. They are square. Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. Required fields are marked *. I also used the Kerdi drain. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength. The cement board core itself is not waterproof, but it can withstand water without falling apart. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. A mortar wall is better and can be customized easier. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . To line niche shelves, for instance. We want that inside corner able to move. All it takes is the right preparation. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. DensShield is one common brand. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. Once all areas have been properly waterproofed, the walls can be tiled and grouted to create a waterproof surface. When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. When cleaning thinset off of Schluter membranes, the manufacturer recommends using a wet sponge and taking care to avoid any scoring or inconsistencies on the surface of the membrane. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. :/. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. Once the wall is prepped, use a primer that is compatible with the KERDI membrane so that it will properly adhere to the wall. Yes. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. The manual can be found here: http://floorelf.com/waterproof, I would say unless you are experienced in working with Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing membrane kit, then I would say work with an easier waterproofing approach, either liquid waterproofing or a combination of liquid and traditional waterproofing (plastic covering the wood frame). If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? Fiber cement board is a variation of cement board that is made from compressed cement and sand and reinforced with wood fibers throughout. I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. Step 1: Measure the area. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Go with smaller bags or only mix half. While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Hi.I have a unique situation. I usually use Durock. Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. It is a pliable waterproofing membrane that also doubles as a vapor retarder. Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. Ratings (91) (5) (91) (3 . If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? It fell right off? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. The problem is on the back side of the drywall, which is not protected. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws.

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