At least to me this discussion thread is very interesting but I always skip the comments that bash another religion or denomination especially when they lack charity and sound scholarship. I think Id remember if I saw someone die, then rise to life, walk into my room and had lunch with me. Jesus would be ashamed that believers still foment hatred toward His holy Church. In it we are given this assurance: The green grass dries up, the blossom withers, but the word of our God endures forever. (Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 1:25) The version known as the Peshitta plays a humble but important role in the accurate transmission of the Bibles message to all of humanity Angry (orgistheis) is from codex D (Bezae) and some Old Latin manuscripts (so-called Western Text). are very corrupt in nature such as Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, Alexandrinus (A 02), Bezae Canatbrigiensis (D 05). Andrew says on 27 May 2016. Perhaps I will have the opportunity of sharing this with you in another article. The entire journey is based on spirituality, faith and love in God. If I have 999, 999 dollar coins, one may conclude that I am a millionaire, even I might. These are the manuscripts on which Westcott and Hort and the modern versions rely so heavily. Also, in Matthew 6:9, Codex Sinaiticus *does* have the phrase who is in heaven (which is omitted as presented above). They had Jesus , no need even if they could have, to commit what was being said to memory. No one said they were quoteing Joe but passing on what they remembered. And no less so today. I am still looking into this. How come these two were preserved when many thousands of others were not? Here is Matthew 16:14. CB I had to laugh as I was thinking nearly the same thing when I read you post. Denominations arise from different nationalities and immigrants bringing their Christian tradition to other countries (We see this in the U.S.) But denominationalism arises from the hypocrisy of Christians who divide based on prideful arguments. The sound foundation built by seeking knowledge and wisdom come from meditating on the word day and night and then is still a spiritual revelation of the truth of God. When I have tried this really no one had remembered what had been said. .September 25 .2015) The simple reason for the disappearance of most manuscripts and why there are so many small fragments containing excerpts around is that they simply wore out! Please site such evidence if it exists. Hooray for the proponents of Sinaiticus and Vaticanus. Steve, you have the DNA of GOD in you. Also, Luke 9:55-56 are not completely absent in Codex Sinaiticus. Also, like most early mss, Codex Sinaiticus omits John 7:53-8:11, not just 8:3-11. It would be understandable to me if the KJV (published in 1611) had been the first English translation. Ignorance is one thing and may be forgiven, but a careless approach or deliberate twisting is another. That leaves only Matthew 28:19 to support the doctrine of the Trinity. And why do we humans who take such pride in our organizational and community identities save in one kind of organization or community seem to save their harshest rebukes for each other for that matter, in this case Protestants against Catholics and vice versa? https://www.faraboveall.com/015_Textual/SPLIT%20TEXTS_JETS_current.pdf. I was fascinated by the contrast to Marks telling of the resurrection. Codex Sinaiticus Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be thy name, Thy kingdom come. Robert Estienne 1550 Theodore Beza 1598 Elzevir 1624 Scrivener 1894 Reina Valera 1909 Tyndale Bible The earliest manuscripts are consistent. Kevin, thanks for this insight, Galatians 4:6. He discovered the first part in 1844 and the second part in 1859. It dismays me, sincerely. https://books.google.com/books/about/In_the_Beginning.html?id=C8Nw_SN2zgYC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button#v=onepage&q&f=false. William posts As Rodney King said, Cant we all just get along? Actually at least to me it does seem to be more important to be able to get along than to be right, however right is defined. That is called relativism, a scourge which has infected our culture. Additionally, Mark 1:1 in the original hand omits reference to Jesus as the Son of God.. Biblical quotations corrected on September 18, 2022. As Jeff said, you guys are confused about Mark 1:41. Constantine Tischendorfs chance finding of Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest New Testament manuscript, at St. Catherines Monastery in the Sinaiand his later removal of the manuscriptmade him both famous and infamous. But just to make sure, here's a comparison of both texts to the contents of Revelation 22:10-21 as printed in the Tyndale House edition of the Greek New Testament: Chuck said that the reason that many of these older manuscripts survived was because the early church did not trust them and so, they werent used and spared the damage which would have normally occurred to documents in continuous use. There are hundreds of papyri (pages and fragments) much older, but incomplete. Modern scholarship generally holds that Mark is in fact the oldest of the Synoptic Gospels, which could cause theological concerns over the omitted resurrection. Interpretation is of God also. Your email address will not be published. The person who wrote this is obviously undereducated read Mark 16:6!!! That is the nature of deception. All religions are based on truth claims. It was not something that they had to work out..DID HE or DIDNT HE? check out this documentary by Abduhla Films called Bridge To Babylon The textus receptus was essentially a slogan used by the distributors of the KJV after it was error corrected and reprinted on the printing press. Subversion is often of a greater danger than frontal attack. That reading is also found in a few Old Latin mss of the Gospels. The question is not : How many manuscripts predate the Guttenberg Bible? Sinaiticus is one of . That is why the copying of Bible manuscripts was such a big business. Also, in Matthew 6:13, Codex Sinaiticus ends the Lords Prayer with the phrase but deliver us from [the] evil [one] (which is omitted above), but the doxology (for thine is the kingdom) is absent. In the end days, knowledge shall increase. This is also the text that agrees with more than 95% of the Bible Manuscripts in Koine (common) Greek. in fact some say that the differences between the two are greater than their individual differences with Textus Receptus. This article doesnt reflect that at all. Any Greek representation of the New Testament is not factual as to the true text. Codex Vaticanus, gathering dust in the Vatican library since the 1500s and Codex Sinaiticus, rescued from a trash can in St. Catherines monasteryused by Westcott and Hort to rewrite the KJV. Of course I dont want to seem to imply that such inability to feel empathy is limited to Christians, Far from it. For example, the resurrection narrative at the end of Mark (16:920) is absent from the Codex Sinaiticus. From which scriptures did he translate? Several corrections are needed to this post. Give us this day our daily bread. After 10 minutes of conversation see who remembers exactly what was said 8 minutes ago. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.. It was found in the Cairo environs with evidence of origin in the 4th or 5th century, right around the time of Athanasius but l wont jump to any conclusions. GREEN, SOVEREIGN GRACE TRUST FUND. There is really no difference in the basic doctrinal message and only a few details are really differentnothing that would affect anyones faith or salvation. This use of parchment as the leading writing material continued for almost a thousand years until it was replaced by paper. Corrupt Path - The ' Minority Text' consists of only 5% of existing manuscripts . They play both sides sometimes it is original and sometimes not. When you allow biased comments like this: If they were deliberately mis-copied by different groups in different locations to support certain theological doctrines, then one could expect differences between the two results, but it is simply not possible to explain how two faithful copies of an original text could end up so incompatible. PLUS, why is it when I read the KJV for six months I experience a power, unlike anything I have ever experienced. Washingtonicus and one of its principle claims to fame is its particular addition to the last chapter. BeDuhn points out that the general public and many Bible scholars assume that the differences in the New World Translation (NW) are due to religious bias on the part of its translators. the Majority Texts (Textus Receptus), and . personnaly have seen evangelists using NIV Codex Sinaiticus based bibles and in front of my eyes not but 3 different times this verse fulfilled. So why do these proponents never complained that these are not included in evangelical churches bible? Handwritten well over 1600 years ago, the manuscript contains the Christian Bible in Greek, including the oldest complete copy of the New Testament. The olympic hockey team that beat russia was given a talk by brooks in the locker room during the victory celebration. In the end I wonder,was this truly a omission,or could there be illness,war,fire or any other disasters?? 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. Further plausible (as a Greek translator of NT into a Somali dialect told me), Imagine the arrogance of Tischendorff. I dont know the history in exact of my great grand parents,how would we know ever about 400 generations ago. We did not command ityet We bestowed on those among them who believed, their due reward, but many of them are rebellious.. The greater danger is not so much whether a version states such things AT ALL, but how many times the total testimony is weakened. What is his assessment? 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. The main texts, Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, contradict each other over 3,000 times in the gospels alone, and they disagree with the ' Majority Text' in 13,000 places. To answer your questions in order, 1) The source of the text underlying most English translations today would be some combination of Greek texts as produced from primarily the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Vaticanus Manuscripts by Nestle/Aland or United Bible Societies. For the benefit of all who may have been following the discussion pertinent to the period of the Judges relevant to Acts 13:20 you will recall that The Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus were held up as being the correct scriptures to follow when considering the correct understanding of Acts 13:20. Regards Codex Siniaticius. The devil you can see is not so much a problem as the devil which you cant see, but yet is very active. Im new to this discussion. No one was copying the thought in ant way, it now was a part of each hearers memory and as such will be changed a bit by each hearer. Have a look at Proverbs 30:4 James A. Sanders, founder and president emeritus of the Ancient Biblical . Actually Mark and other gospels is written after the death of Peter and Paul. Jesus was in the OT, in Genesis 1:26 God said let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness, this would be funny language for God alone and by himself to be using. What have you got to lose? Along with my 11 other companion who witnessed it, and 500 other witnesses who were visited, I think wed get those details right. The argument made is that because they are believed to be physically the oldest, they must represent the fewest changes from the originals. Wilbur N. Pickering, Th.M Ph.D is qioted as saying This Bible History Daily feature was originally published on August 12, 2015. In Mt 6:12, Codex Sinaiticus reads forgive us our *debts* (not sins). They cant all be simultaneously true so it is important to seek out the truth. Who knew the reliability of their manuscrips than the monks at St Caherines? Two men who did not believe the scriptures were inerrant, who conducted seances, who did not believe in the miracles of Christ and who were enamored of Charles Darwin and his theory of evolution. So, you admit there are serious problems with Sinaiticus bibles and also that the only thing of importance to you is you can still be saved using these bibles. More so with Jesus deciples, they were not listening to remember but to learn. And no, Steve, the are thousands and thousands positives and no negatives at all. If somebody knows the existence of side-by-side comparisons Id like to know about them. A footnote on #46 above: Besides the New World Translation, the others were The Amplified New Testament, The Living Bible, The New American Bible With Revised New Testament, New American Standard Bible, The Holy BibleNew International Version, The New Revised Standard Version, The Bible in Todays English Version, and King James Version. I read it for the prose. For example the Magna Carta (c.1200 AD) is so frail and desiccated that it is enclosed in a sealed environment, to prevent total disintegration. Matthew 24/37 are you sure and how sure you are? Ask yourself this. I recommend The forging of Codex Siniaticus by Bill Cooper. Sinaiticus and Vaticanus disagree with one another in more than 3,000 places in the four Gospels alone! Being in the ultimate best group (your current religion is the correct one of course) is a very powerful aphrodisiac. We also understand the the religious leader of the time killed Jesus the savior and many of the Jewish people still do not believe today due to their religious leaders. you dont have to be a christian or a jew to be a good translator. Its the reason I continue to receive the articles! This cannot be an unblemished codex. 8 years of Archaeology Odyssey online, exploring the ancient roots of the Western world in a scholarly and entertaining way, The New Encyclopedia of Archaeological Excavations in the Holy Land. I found the many negatives, outweigh the few positives.I forced myself to face the truth of this, grew up and have been happy not to look back. FREE ebook: The Holy Bible: A Buyer's Guide 42 different Bible versions, addressing content, text, style and religious orientation. You know perfectly well that the omission of these texts in no way theologically threatens any Biblical doctrine. So our second question is really: why were these two unorthodox* manuscripts unused? Although the Diatesseron had some Textus Receptus readings in it, it was considered to be corrupted. this same author states The practical effect of the W-H theory was a complete rejection of the Syrian text and an almost exclusive preference for the Neutral text (equals B and Aleph). Also there are several copies of the book of Matthew written in Hebrew. My question about, neither the son is there Who has made all the ends of the earth to rise? The old proverbial Trojan Horse trick worked very well back in the old days. Dating to the mid-fourth century C.E., Codex Sinaiticus is the oldest complete manuscript of the New Testament. These few differences between ancient codices dont call into question any doctrine of Christianity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukRCVDmiAts. The main texts, Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, contradict each other over 3,000 times in the gospels alone, and they disagree with the ' Majority Text' in 13,000 places. Both the Codex and the KJV Greek manuscripts show the diety of Yeshua in different ways! But the very reason why the Jewish religious left (or right) charged Jesus with blaasphemy and wanted Hm dead was because thy understood perfectly that Jesus was stating that He was equal with God the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, etc. However, it is not . In discussion of this codex it is discribed as perhaps the third oldest, but probably has better provenance than the other two. Therefore reveal thy righteousness Craig Evans helped me to understand this seeming dilemma in his study the reliability of the New Testament Manuscripts. his words will never pass away ! Posted on . See following corroborative analysis comparing the two Alexandrian codices (Vaticanus B and Sinaiticus Aleph) And presto, what do we have today? Ive now forgotten where and cannot find it. This is just not possible, for there is no mention of the catastrophe in Rome when these apostles and most of the other Christians were cruelly massacred late in Neros reign. How about logic? God has become a stigma in our society today, the lack of morality I think is a reflection of that stigma. Modern scholarship generally holds that Mark is in fact the oldest of the Synoptic Gospels, which could cause theological concerns over the omitted resurrection. Craig, thanks for the link to battle of the bible. Let me point out that the oldest Bible on display in the United States is the Codex It must be stated that most modern versions/translations still have statements in their pages that will support the divinity of Jesus Christ and His work on earth and on the cross, and all or most of His message etc. One night some sheepherders were sitting around the campfire.. just cant hold a candle to And there were shepherds abiding in the fields, keeping watch over their flocks by night.. He claims that the gospels were written after the deaths of Peter and Paul. I had looked at a photo of the end of 2 Cor 13 in the CS, and it ended with verse 13, and the English translation on that same web page showed it ending with what we know as verse 13. Please force yourself to reconsider, take time and rethink your position, and seek the TRUTH. You are applying 20th century, literate society ideas on a first century oral transmission society.